Today's Guest: Rob Provencher of NO BS Photo Success. in Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
Today's Host: John Bentley
Listen to this Show
Publish this Show on Your Website
Show Sponsor www.nobsphotosuccess.com
No BS Photo Success
Rob Provencher Transcript Page
Rob Provencher Expert PageANNOUNCER: Welcome to No BS Photo Success Digital Photography Shop Talk brought to you by NO BS Photo Success Photography Forum. Dedicated to the portrait and wedding photographer who has the passion and desire to grow. Now here's your host, John Bentley.
JOHN:Today on the No BS Photo Success Digital Photography Shop Talk, we have the owner and photographer extrordinare, Rob Provencher with us today. Good morning, Rob.
ROB: Good morning. How you doing?
JOHN: Hey, not too bad. We're here to talk a little bit about how you market, and how you can create a great business and great income with babies and portraiture. So where do you start with something like that, Rob?
ROB: Well, first of all it's an area that a lot of people are interested, you know, child and baby portraiture, and it's an area that I have a lot of personal history in in my studio. So, it's something I thought we could talk about. Some of the strategies that a lot of photographers would be well served by and those who are interested in getting into those markets, you can make a pretty decent living just going after that niche, or you can add that niche to your photography studio, or those niches rather. That's some of the..I'll reveal some of those strategies in this interview.
JOHN: No of course, anybody who hooks up with your service can get the full explanation on how to make this kind of money. Let's just kind of talk a little bit about what you get into on the No BS Photo Success website.
ROB: Well, I was going to kind of mention that towards the end of the talk, skim through some of the major points about developing and creating a successful child and baby portrait photography business, and let every listener know that there's a lot more to it. Way to much than I can cover in this interview, but there's a lot of manuals and videos at the Forum for all our members at www.nobsphotosuccess.com. But if you want we can get into the actual strategies right now. Does that sound cool?
JOHN: Yeah, that sounds great.
ROB: Ok.
JOHN: Where do you start?
ROB: Ok, cool. What I've kind of done is I've kind of made some major points that I can discuss and get into. The first thing, and I bring this up with anybody who's doing photography marketing and that is, you've got to start with a good product, really. Because if you have crappy product, but if you have really good marketing, you're just really intensifying the speed with which people find you you're crappy, right?
JOHN: Sure.
ROB: It's true, you've got to have a good product. Along with that you have to really be good with children and babies. These are obvious, yet sometimes overlooked, points that some photographers tend to ignore for whatever reason, but you've got to really like babies and children. I believe women have the extra edge over us men. However, that doesn't mean that us guys can't be successful at it. You've got to really be able to look into a babies eyes and just connect with that child, or you have to be able to communicate with a two year old if there is such a thing that can be achieved, but well truthfully there is...
JOHN: Sure.
ROB: It takes a certain talent and a certain patience level with which to manage photographing two year old and so there's that starting point right there. You have to be able to create a good product, and you have to be really good at babies and children. Further to that, it's important to be able to target your market. Now that applies to all photography marketing aspects, and I always bring that fundamental, and I call it the 40/40/20 rule. Whatever promotion or whatever ad and specifically for babies and children which I think makes it a lot easier to really niche that particular product, if you follow the 40/40/20 rule then what it means is 40% of your success is directly linked to your market. The next 40% is directly linked to the offer to that market, and of course, the 20% third step is the actual media or the creative that you bring together with which to deliver that offer to that market. But what a lot of photographers fail to do is they jump right to number 3 which is the 20% which is the smallest, least important portion of that marketing formula, you know what I mean? They skip the market; they skip the offer, and they just say well we're just going to create something really nice, and they get into image ads. So that's a big mistake so I have to really underline these key issues when you get into child and baby portraiture, and it's especially easy, because it's a very identifiable market to go after. So let's maybe get into the marketing strategies; does that sound cool?
JOHN: Yeah, let's start with that.
ROB: Ok, way back when I decided I was going to really be aggressive and go after the baby and child portrait market, it hit me that people spend a lot of money on this market. I mean, it was obvious I was doing a lot of glamour sessions. You know, the makeover sessions that were very popular in the 90s. I was going into hair salons and women would get their hair and make-up done. I'd do a photo shoot and go back and up-sell them. And then sometimes a woman one particular day, she came in and placed her order and it was a measly order, and she complained about...the pictures were awesome...but she complained about how she looked, and you know you've got to listen this kind of stuff all the time, and you have to be able to create solutions, and then right after her a woman came in that I had photographed her baby and she just dropped like this immense order with no complaints, no questions asked, and my wife and I looked at each other and went, ok, there's something to this market. So people are eager to spend a lot of money and buy portraits of their babies and children. So that's how it started for us, and what we created initially and it was very popular was the Baby's First Year wall panel, and we sent out a one page photo copies sales letter to people who were just having their baby...newborn babies. We mailed it to their homes, we sent them out every Monday, and you can find the list of name if you look hard enough, sometimes it's right under your noses, and for us it was every Monday in the daily newspaper they print the newborn babies and the names of the parents, and we went into the yellow pages, not the yellow pages, but the telephone book, and we'd find their address, and we'd mail to that list.
JOHN: Sure. Smart.
ROB: Old, but a targeted group, right?
JOHN: Yes, correct.
ROB: And we'd bring them a great offer which at that time was a very well priced $69 Baby's First Year wall panel, and they would get a session at 3 month, 6 months, 9 and 12, and they would get this beautiful 20" plaque mounted wall panel, and we sold hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of those. So that was our following the 40/40/20 rule, right? We've got a great offer, we have our targeted group, and of course, the 20% was the delivery which was mail photo copies which was the least important. But the proof is in the pudding...it worked. We built our entire business in that rhelm using that basic strategy, and we still to this day like 12 years later, we still do the exact same strategy.
JOHN: Now, Rob, before we go any further, we're going to take a quick break here and then we'll pick up with what you're talking in the 40/40/20, ok.
ROB: Cool.
JOHN: We'll be right back with with Rob Provencher of No BS Photo Success, and you are listening to The Digital Photography Shop Talk. This is your host, John Bentley, and we'll be right back after these important messages.
ANNOUNCER: This program is sponsored by NO BS Photo Success Photography Forum. Visit them on the web at www.nobsphotosuccess.com. NO BS Photo Success dedicated to the portrait and wedding photographer who has the passion and desire to grow.
ANNOUNCER: VTalk Radio.
ANNOUNCER: www.morephotos.com helps professional photographers manage their digital images online in over 20 countries. They can help you with domain names, websites, shopping carts, and online proofing solutions. Please visit them at www.morephotos.com. Www.morephotos.com the online sales solution for professional photographers worldwide. We now return you to the NO BS Photo Success Digital Photography Shop Talk show with your host, John Bentley.
JOHN: We are back with Rob Provencher of No BS Photo Success, and you're listening to the Digital Photography Shop Talk. Welcome back to the program, Rob.
ROB: Welcome.
JOHN: Now we're talking about making a good income with babies and portraiture, and the subject or the sub-subject is the 40/40/20. Explain again, what is the 40/40/20, and then let's pick up where we left off.
ROB: Alright. The 40/40/20 is the fundamentals of creating a promotion or an ad for any particular market. It applies actually in any industry. 40% the first step is to determine your market. The next 40% is to determine your offer. Make an irresistible offer that resonates with that particular market and the final 20% is the method of delivery. The creative that goes into bringing those two together and what most folks do is skip one and two and jump right into 3 and often spend a lot of money on big media TV, newsprint, magazines ads and, you know, just image ads.
JOHN: They're just kind of throwing it out there and hoping to get something.
ROB: Hoping something sticks and most of it doesn't, and they wonder why the advertising doesn't work. Well that's why. This is a particularly important formula to use when marketing to babies and children, because it's a no-brainer. I mean, it's a very easily identifiable hot market. People are really eager to buy and spend money and you can create a long term business, basically if you wanted to for any photographer they could basically create their marketing strategies just using these principals and build a successful child and baby portrait business. Plus it adds funds to the current business that they already have.
JOHN: Sure.
ROB: That's what we've done. We get a lot of our income from this and plus weddings and families.
JOHN: So first, we have to target our market, and we have to put together an irresistible offer for the customers.
ROB: That's correct.
JOHN: And then what's the 20%, the creative delivery. What do you mean?
ROB: That's how you get that message, that market, that offer delivered to that market, and I sometimes will say, you know, if you have the right market, and you have the really good offer, you could write it on the back of a pizza box and send them that. I mean, they'll get it because it will work. So it's really not as important as the first two, and that's why I'm a firm believer in direct mail and even a photocopied or printed out sales letter. Often times people poopoo those ideas thinking that they don't work, and well they do work and the proof is in the pudding, and I urge anybody who is eager to try it to go ahead, and you'll see the phone will ring, and it certainly worked for us. And we've developed a whole series of offers, you know, over the years not just the Baby's First Year wall panel offer which I might add, and we've increased the price every few years, and we're now charging substantially more than we originally did, and we use a four page sales letter, lot of pictures, great offer, and it still works to this day, although, we do fewer of them. We're more selective and that's really a good place to be at in our photography studio. But further to that what we did was we created a siblings package which is for the parents with second baby and the graduate the Baby's First Year wall panel. Now they have two kids or more, we offer them a siblings panel or a siblings package rather. Or we offer them a toddler panel which is similar to the Baby's First Year Wall Panel; however, it's for the second and third year of the child's life and it's spread out instead of every three months, every six months so they get four photo shoots in two years. Now see what I'm getting at here is I'm creating these offers that when the parents look at it, they like it. It's very exciting to them. It's very irresistible. The target market in that group is our past clients. They've graduated to the Baby's First Year wall panel and then we pitch them the obvious next step up so. It becomes progressively easier and easier to get the marketing to really work on our behalf, you know, what I mean?
JOHN: Once you're able to get them into the fold, if you will, there's business down the road for you, if it's a continually growing family or just with the one child and family portraits.
ROB: And friends of offshoot business. There's anniversaries, their parents might be celebrating their 50th or 25th anniversary or they just want to have a reunion photo or whatever, or the mom's baby sister is getting married. There's an immense amount of offshoot business that happens as a result of that. Thanks for bringing that up. That's a really good point. So, and if you keep the communication lines open with your current clients and you're always sending them stuff via either mail or phone calls or newsletters, sales letters, they're thinking of you all the time, and you can create some really cool referral business ideas and strategies to grow your studio. But the possibilities are endless and way to many to get into at any great detail on this interview. I should mention too, John, if you don't mind. There's another program we started back around the same time, and we called it the Creative Kids' Club. All we did was we said, well we can create this membership program, pretty much like Cosco has a membership, or what do you have, Sam's Club down there? Where you pay a membership fee?
JOHN: Sure.
ROB: That's where they make a lot of their money is from the membership fees.
JOHN: Sure.
ROB: We don't necessarily make a lot of money off the Creative Kids' Club, what we were selling was the $99 membership, and they got a little album, and it costed us $20 for the album and we sold it for $99, and they had a session every six months for five years. And what that did was got people coming to us.
JOHN: Yeah.
ROB: And we'd offer reprint specials on each one of those sessions and the overall average was very good, and we sold over 500 - 600 of those, I mean, it was just amazing. I mean, they've got the word out there. It just stimulated business, and again, it's a very distinct offer to a very distinct crowd so it follows the 40/40/20 rule.
JOHN: And you get that return business by presenting these other offers once you get them into the fold.
ROB: Absolutely.
JOHN: Now, Rob, we do need to wind this interview up. Let's talk a little bit about all the advantages of signing up with the No BS Photo Success when it comes to this kind of an idea.
ROB: Well I had created an entire baby success system years ago, and it's videos and manuals, and I basically put it all in the No BS Photo Success Inner Circle Members' Forum. So if anybody is interested, I mean, that's just one of the many, many, many things that are available as educational resources in the forum when people join up. And it's like $30 a month, it's dirt cheap, it's a no-brainer, and a price of a cup of coffee a day. You get access to my Posing Guide which I go into detailed explanation of every age group, newborns all the way up to older kids to groups of kids to fairy portraits, you know, princess type shots. Pages and pages and hours and hours of video of me and actual live photo shoots with babies, children. It's all in there so I encourage anybody who is really interested to check out www.nobsphotosuccess.com and read about the Photography Forum description is in there.
JOHN: Great. I want to thank you for joining us today on the Digital Photography Shop Talk, Rob.
ROB: Thank you. I enjoyed it.
JOHN: You've been listening to No BS Photo Success Digital Photography Shoptalk. I've been your host, John Bentley. We've been in the studio with Rob Provencher, part owner and photographer for No BS Photo Success. Thanks for tuning in everyone. Until next time. This is John Bentley signing off.
ANNOUNCER: No BS Photo Success Digital Photography Shop Talk is powered by www.vtalkradio.com . Radio for the 21st Century.